why ????

[john kerwin]

Why in this time of lockdown, Are hundreds and hundreds of idiots, putting two fingers up to the lockdown regs.
I live in a seaside town. And about 100 yards from a main road. The live cctv cams on the prom show loads of people on the prom and the beach. All close together. the regs in force are meant to protect us all. Its just like a pre lockdown sunny bank holiday. traffic is back to to the old days. Just like an old rush hour. The only change is the speed all going well above the limit.
What's a £60 quid fine (nowt). it should be put up to at least £500. that might make them stay in-doors. And try to protect the whole population, and them poor sods (god bless em) who have to look after them when they get sick.
Rant over.

[Pinky]

Howdy,
Same over here, I have neighbours that don't care or give a sh-t.
Frustrating to say the least.
Stay safe Hussars.
ATB
Pinky

[Bill Bentley]

While I would never encourage anybody to break the law, sometimes we really should ask the question:
is the law 'just and appropriate' ?

If it is not, I should like to quote the United States of America's Declaration of Independence : "it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government" ... Government's pass the laws and regulations and so are responsible for their effect upon society !

What I see happening on the streets of Europe, police brutality against citizens who are doing nothing 'wrong', is very concerning. Universally Governments have declared a 'state of emergency' giving them powers equal to 'as if they were at war', but there is no 'war' !

As far as corona is concerned, there is as much medical evidence to say it is not a big deal as there is to say it is a threat to our existence.

Yes, we know that people are dying with this virus and this is never nice for their loved ones, but that people die is inevitable !
The medical facts are almost unanimous: 95% of those who die are over 70 and the vast majority have some form of underlaying critical condition.
Where autopsies have been done it has clearly been shown that although the person had the corona virus, the cause of death was their underlaying condition. So people are dying with corona as opposed to because of corona.

The numbers being cast around by the press AND the governments have no substance.

The only way to know if corona is killing people will be to examine the numbers of total deaths after the end of each year.

The UK has between 500,000 and 600,000 deaths every year, that's about 10,000 every week. Usually more in winter because of the normal flu's etc.. The numbers being cast around don't get anywhere near this normal reality. And, even if more people are dying right now because of the corona virus, they can not die again later in the year and so the total annual numbers will not have changed all that much.

It is in any event hardly surprising that the naked numbers will increase because the population has increased year on year and we all know about the baby boomers, (us !) who are now growing older and so the number of deaths MUST increase in proportion with the then birth boom. So the only real statistic of any value will be the proportion of the population in percentage at the end of the year.

Ok, it would be a bit late to identify an extinction after it has happened and clearly governments have a duty to act to prevent any such catastrophe, but to impose a 24 hour a day curfew for weeks on end, based upon no real evidence, is quite simply weird and I am not surprised that many people are choosing to ignore this ('law' ?) recommendation.

[john kerwin]

Sorry Bill, I don't agree with you. If this lockdown saves
or prolongs the life of even the old or infirm, it must be a good thing. the way you seem to talking, goes back to the ways Adolf and his mates were thinking.
This disease is killing newborns and fit and young healthy people. Not just those with underlying problems. And we all,(like it or not) must try and do our bit to try and make sure deaths are kept to a minimum. Nurses Doctors and emergency workers are putting their lives at risk. and quite a few have died doing what they do.
So what do we do just carry on as normal ? and help this virus spread out of control. No we must try to stop this deadly virus. for the good of all.

[Bill Bentley]

Hi John,

you are of course entitled to disagree with my opinion.

Quote: "If this lockdown saves or prolongs the life of even the old or infirm, it must be a good thing".

Surely life must have the words 'quality of' added to it, for it is surely the 'quality of life' that is of value. Having no pain, having friends, being able to do things for yourself, enjoying life. As a youth I worked in an old folks home, it was not nice. Many people were desperately unhappy, violent towards each other, laying for hours, in great pain, in their own urine and faeces. Visit some of the less profitable old peoples homes today, not much has changed, you get what you can pay for.

Quote : "Nurses Doctors and emergency workers are putting their lives at risk. and quite a few have died doing what they do."

These good people have always put themselves in harms way and many have died because of their role in society, long before corona !

In Hamburg the state coroner has publicly stated on TV that not one single person (in his area of responsibility) of all ages and professions has died by having 'just corona', they have all died of underlaying causes, even if they were unaware of their condition. This includes children and otherwise apparently healthy adults. The WHO and most nations and regions have refused to autopsy corona victims to see what they actually died of, if corona was present that is simply given as the cause of death and no further 'cause' is looked for. Suddenly being 96, having had several cancers and having a dicky heart become irrelevant !?! In Hamburg the 'evidence' of professional medical scientists proves otherwise.

In theory, modern medicine can prevent almost all deaths, including those with corona, if every single patient can have an iron lung (as we used to call it) and enough highly trained medical staff to tend to them. The reality is: the equipment is not there and neither are the staff, with or without corona. Go down to any A&E on a Saturday night, or during any normal flu period and find out for yourself.

It all boils down to money, if you want a service you have to pay for it. So what is the answer, raise taxes ? That's how to start a revolution and who will be the winner then ? Not the old and infirm, that's for sure.

We simply have to let go of those who we can not save 'at a price'. That has always been reality and nothing will change, no matter how much upset we feel for our lost loved ones.

The lockdown on the other hand has already caused a great many suicides. More violence at home, more alcohol and drug abuse, people are dying because of the lockdown ! Ever more people can no longer earn a meager living and so can't support their families or even themselves. Companies and industries will fail because of the lockdown ! Ever more normal good people are learning not to trust the government and the police.
The endless debt that is building up, both corporate and private, because of the lockdown will all have to be repaid one day and by whom ?

Is it right to "prolong the lives of the old or infirm" by so burdening your friends and your own and their children and grandchildren ?

In my opinion that is the moral question !

The latest science out today in Germany suggests that the death rate WITH (not even because of) corona is as little as 0,37%, if this proves to become correct:
Based on the UK population of 66.000,000, that would be about 4500 deaths per week, which is less than an average normal week !
So where is all this panic coming from ?
About 20 years ago 11.000 people were dying per week and nobody did a lockdown and so many survived that the population has continued to increase in spite of loosing those that died.

There is endless accurate information out there, from before the panic started.

https://www.indexmundi.com/united_kingd ... _rate.html

[Woods 27]

Not being racist but watch what happens when covid19 hits Africa in many countries the shit will really hit the fan.


27,

[Bill Bentley]

Tony, nice to see you active again,

if this virus were any where near as bad as it is being 'advertised' you would unquestionably be right.
It is absurd that millions are not laying dead in all, so called, third world countries. But where is the evidence ?

A fellow HAWK sent me this earlier today:

From: www.worldometers.info (sorry I couldn't seem to copy it and paste it, so I am writing it longhand).

Worldwide Deaths

January 1 - April 1, 2020 ............My observations:

COVID 19: ................ 46,438 .... (this is the number of deaths recorded 'with corona', not 'because of corona' !)
Seasonal Flu: .......... 121,993
Malaria: .................. 246,121
Suicide: .................. 269,076 .... (? how many of these were because of the consequences of the lockdown ?)
RTA's: .................... 338,715 ..... (oop's)
HIV/Aids: ............... 421,808
Alcohol: ................. 627,571 ..... (guilty)
Smoking: ............. 1,254,352 ..... (? why is tobacco still on sale ?)
Cancer: ................ 2,060,730
Hunger: ............... 2,806,314 ..... (? what do we do that effectively stops people starving ? NOTHING ! )
Abortion: ........... 10.665,130

I hope that I have not made any typing errors and when, it does not change the relationship of the reality !

I have tried to verify the original source of this information, but my being a computer plonker, it's beyond me. Maybe somebody with more understanding would check out this source, for all of us

In any event I can see what I need to protect myself against. Information and not Fake News is all important !
.

[Bill Bentley]

Post by Pinky » Tue May 05, 2020 8:12 pm
I have taken the liberty of copying this from another thread, I hope that you will not mind .

It’s a mess out there now. Hard to discern between what’s a real threat and what is just simple panic and hysteria. For a small amount of perspective at this moment, imagine you were born in 1900.

On your 14th birthday, World War I starts, and ends on your 18th birthday. 22 million people perish in that war. Later in the year, a Spanish Flu epidemic hits the planet and runs until your 20th birthday. 50 million people die from it in those two years. Yes, 50 million.

On your 29th birthday, the Great Depression begins. Unemployment hits 25%, the World GDP drops 27%. That runs until you are 33. The country nearly collapses along with the world economy.

When you turn 39, World War II starts. You aren’t even over the hill yet. Between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perish in the war.

Smallpox was epidemic until you were in your 40’s, as it killed 300 million people during your lifetime.

At 50, the Korean War starts. 5 million perish. From your birth, until you are 55 you dealt with the fear of Polio epidemics each summer. You experience friends and family contracting polio and being paralyzed and/or die.

At 55 the Vietnam War begins and doesn’t end for 20 years. 4 million people perish in that conflict. During the Cold War, you lived each day with the fear of nuclear annihilation. On your 62nd birthday you have the Cuban Missile Crisis, a tipping point in the Cold War. Life on our planet, as we know it, almost ended. When you turn 75, the Vietnam War finally ends.

Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900. How did they endure all of that? When you were a kid in 1985 and didn’t think your 85 year old grandparent understood how hard school was. And how mean that kid in your class was. Yet they survived through everything listed above. Perspective is an amazing art. Refined and enlightening as time goes on. Let’s try and keep things in perspective. Your parents and/or grandparents were called to endure all of the above – you are called to stay home and sit on your couch.


Pinky, what a seriously interesting perspective, how very true, how very true !

However, I am uncertain whether you are suggesting that we should just sit at home or not .

If just sitting at home will solve all of our problems or even reduce them, that would be great .

But as I see things, sitting at home is creating enormous problems: If this goes on, because large industries WILL fail, thousands, perhaps millions of people will loose their jobs, a depression every bit as bad as 'The Great Depression' is already on the cards. Property values will shrink, pension funds will fail ... not a pretty picture.

Unfortunately I have never heard of a problem that got solved by sitting at home. All of the events mentioned above were only mastered by people standing up and doing the right thing ... what ever that is .

Thanks for your contribution to this delicate and very serious topic .

[Pinky]

Hi there,
I'm not taking the credit for that post, my father sent it to me from god knows where. Although it truly sums a lot up.
Isolation and separation is key to stopping the spread. Work places can be adopted to allow work to continue.....6ft apart.
I work my 12 hour shift at an addictions centre and wear a mask most of it, the clients are kept 6 ft apart and wear masks everywhere apart from there own bedrooms and when they eat - 6 ft apart.
Clever planning in work places, screening and testing can get us through this.
Stay safe and separate.
ATB
Pinky

[Woods 27]

It doesn't help when we send an RAF flight to Turkey and it returns with 400,000 useless PPE kits some one out there is laughing their heads off all the way to the bank.


27,