This Russia Ukraine Crisis

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Michael Burgess
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:37 pm
Location: Uk Dorset
Service details: Boy's Sqn RAC 1956 B Sqn Berlin 1958. Stayed Regt Duty till 1990 then RAC Gunnery School till Xmas 2006. Completed 50years and 6 months service.
Real name: Mick Burgess
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This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by Michael Burgess »

Hi Arnie Bill
You might find this interesting

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “
This is why Ukraine matters.
It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.

:o :P :evil:
john kerwin
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by john kerwin »

Wow Mick, that must have taken some time to compile.
I Hope Russia backs down. But I can't see Putin backing down and losing face. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
It looks the same as Hitler did to Poland, in 1939. But I hope not. The Bombs or the Bomb are a lot more destructive :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: , so much so, no one may survive. Even if we do the World would never be the same again.
Bill Bentley
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Service details: 1970 - JLR RAC, 14/20KH, Para Sqn RAC, 14/20KH, Hereford, 14/20KH, 2 Para, DLOY - 1990.
Real name: Martin William Lester Bentley (Bill) (Basha !)
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by Bill Bentley »

As a JL we did a lot of 'education' about the Soviet union. Where the Iron Curtain was etc..
As I see it, it is we the West who have been encroaching ever closer towards Russia and it's a bloody silly game to be playing !

Was it not NATO who went into Serbia without a UN mandate and Iraq and Libya, repeatedly attacking other sovereign states ?
Bearing in mind that France - Napoleon went into Old Russia a couple of times, then Germany did too in WWI and WWII, costing the Russian peoples a great many millions of lives lost. I really think that we should understand Russia's concerns about NATO stationing their troops on the Russian borders.

Are we even right to bitch about Russia 'dealing with local terrorist incidents' within its own sphere of influence ? The Ukraine is well inside of the former Soviet Union and as such has little or nothing to do with us. Unless of course we want to steal some of the goodies that Mick has listed above.

And what has all this got to do with the North Stream 2 gas pipeline ?
Well, were it currently functioning, there would not be an energy crisis in Europe ! So who is stopping it from going into service: well it's the German government under pressure from America. America want rather to sell us their toxic fracking gas, which would have to sail across the Atlantic and so is much, much more expensive. It is also of course a disaster for the environment, burning fuel in ships to carry fuel thousands of miles, think about that please !

So the US want us to go without cheaper, cleaner, safer gas, while all the time increasing their own imports of oil from Russia, think about that too !

I am afraid that Boris is hyping the whole Russian crisis to deflect attention away from his own home grown problems. Are you willing to send your kids to war for such blatantly wrong reasons ? A war which could escalate to destroy much of what we have grown to understand as 'freedom'.

Why not agree that NATO will never allow the Ukraine to join its organisation ?
With all of those resources the Ukraine could easily be a great free trading partner to both sides !

And why not allow the North Stream 2 gas pipeline to operate as has been planned for years and which has cost billions of € to complete ?
And why not, if we have no intention of attacking Russia, withdraw our troops from the Russian borders, back to where they were before the Berlin Wall fell. What have we got to loose by doing these things ?

We certainly have got a lot to loose if things get hot, not just countless numbers of dead, great areas of land and towns destroyed which will lead to hunger on a scale that none of us fat bastards have ever known.

And how will all of this stupidity help to save the environment ?
It won't, but it may well be the end of any chance that we might have had to offset the climatic catastrophe which is already heading our way.

As I recall, Russia has never attacked the West, if I am wrong please do wise me up :?
Pinky
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Service details: 1979 JLR RAC. 14/20H then that other regiment. 1979-2003
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by Pinky »

.......but what about 'Black lives matter'
...........what about 'climate change'
.....................and 'Covid'

Guess we are 'doing' war now !!!
Just a little analogy of what the f-ck is going on!!
WORLD IS A MESS.

Pinky
Arnie
Posts: 260
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Location: Western Australia
Service details: Enlisted in 14th/20th King's Hussars on 2 Feb 1959.
Served Hohne and Rheindahlen 1959 - 1962
Libya 1962 Cyprus with C Sqn Dec 1963 - Feb 1964. Returned to Benghazi
then to Tripoli with B Sqn until Sep 1964. Left for Courses in NBC then to 7 Armoured Brigade till 1967.
Transferred to Intelligence Corps 67. First posting to Northern Ireland 67 - 70.
Singapore 70 - 71, Hong Kong 71 - 72. NI 72 - 74. NITAT (Northern Ireland Training and Advisory Team) 74 - 76. Berlin 76 - 79. Final Posting, Preston Int and Security Section. Stupidly Retired on 1 Feb 81, and emigrated to Australia.
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by Arnie »

Hi Yall,

This Red Neck agrees wholeheartedly with all that has been said.
Bill, the closest the Russians have come to 'invading' anyone was in the Crimean War between them and Britain and France in the 1850's period. The Crimea just happens to be in the UKRAINE????? They did want a 'warm water' port as I understand it, not an unreasonable want considering their own facilities in the Northern hemisphere are frozen ice rinks for some of the year. They also, foolishly, tried it on with the Japanese in the very early 20th Century, and promptly got their arse kicked.
During the Soviet era it was all about "Ideology" but they never 'invaded' anyone except try and influence the populations with Socialism. Their efforts after WW11 (The Cold War) was about this and considering their history of being invaded, all the way back to the Mongolians and Tartars, they wanted a buffer between them and any potential enemies. As I understand it the disaster of invading Finland, in the late 30's was only an early attempt at putting a buffer between them and Adolf. Needless-to-say Old Iron Joe took the opportunity while he had the chance to to complete this buffer zone with the Soviet Bloc, with help of my hero, Winston Churchhill, and his famous "Naughty Note" concocted at the Teheran Conference.
Lesson over for the day.

Arnie :D :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol:
Bill Bentley
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:40 pm
Location: Spain / Germany
Service details: 1970 - JLR RAC, 14/20KH, Para Sqn RAC, 14/20KH, Hereford, 14/20KH, 2 Para, DLOY - 1990.
Real name: Martin William Lester Bentley (Bill) (Basha !)
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by Bill Bentley »

Hi Pinky,
didn't somebody get their hand slapped for suggesting that "all lives matter" ?
The very crux of my own jargon was that the environment will suffer perhaps irreparable damage should war break out.
And Corona is just a bug that we learn to live with or die with it rather than because of it.

Arnie,
just a note/query about the Crimean War, did that not have much to do with the Turks/ Ottoman's as they used to be called ?
Where we the West yet again were fighting over that which was not ours :? :?

It's nice to be back :lol:
Arnie
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:42 pm
Location: Western Australia
Service details: Enlisted in 14th/20th King's Hussars on 2 Feb 1959.
Served Hohne and Rheindahlen 1959 - 1962
Libya 1962 Cyprus with C Sqn Dec 1963 - Feb 1964. Returned to Benghazi
then to Tripoli with B Sqn until Sep 1964. Left for Courses in NBC then to 7 Armoured Brigade till 1967.
Transferred to Intelligence Corps 67. First posting to Northern Ireland 67 - 70.
Singapore 70 - 71, Hong Kong 71 - 72. NI 72 - 74. NITAT (Northern Ireland Training and Advisory Team) 74 - 76. Berlin 76 - 79. Final Posting, Preston Int and Security Section. Stupidly Retired on 1 Feb 81, and emigrated to Australia.
Real name:
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by Arnie »

Bill,
your last made me look at the history of the Crimean War, causes, main protagonists etc.
I made my throw away comment in my previous submission based on my schoolboy memories, which were to say the least, limited. Enter good old Wikipedia.
You were right the Ottoman Empire was at the centre of the causes, Russia had disagreements with them about the treatment of Christians within the empire. There we go again, religion causing wars!!!! The British wanted to keep the slowly disintegrating Ottoman Empire as a buffer to their interests in India, Middle and Far East and France, which as usual, had Emperor Napoleon III puffing his chest and desiring the Re-instatement of France as a World power.
Many Hours later I conceded defeat. It was such a convoluted mess of shocking diplomacy, military and logistical incompetence my head was spinning, though it could be age. Basically I had been right about the Tsar wanting warm water ports, and a buffer for Russia.

On the original topic though, I had been wanting to suggest, what I think I have suggested before - SCRAP THE UN. Nowhere near does it perform it's original function. The whole world is cringing in terror at what might happen between Russia and the Ukraine and not a peep out of the UN. What is the purpose of it. Its Peacekeepers wear handcuffs when they are sent anywhere minor to keep the peace. It is because of the UNs impotence and inactivity. GET RID of it.
Second lecture of the day ends.
P.S. Has anybody seen that news item about Macron arranging a meeting with Putin to be the first to sign the Surrender Documents.
Pinky
Posts: 425
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by Pinky »

Gloves are off......
john kerwin
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:39 am
Location: morecambe
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by john kerwin »

if the nukes fly. no need to worry about global warming, black lives matter, over= population. or anything else. nowt will be left.
john kerwin
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:39 am
Location: morecambe
Service details: A sqn 14/20th Kings Hussars, 5th Troop and SHQ Troop. 1962 to 1966/7 and 2nd RTR, Benghazi tripoli cyprus perham down and omagh Ni
Real name:
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Re: This Russia Ukraine Crisis

Post by john kerwin »

What kind of troops fire on, and kill mothers and children. Agree a Evacuation, then shell and bomb the columns trying to get out. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Vlad the invader will go down in history, as a monster. What does he want a land devoid of all people.
But all Nations must take part of the blame, by reducing all Army Navy and airforces since the fall of the Berlin wall. While Russia and China build up their armed forces. We will never learn.
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